sigh

Thanks for reminding me how lonely I am... Unless the "magic of the chan" can also bring Souseiseki here, I fear this won't be of much help.

Also that universe is so damn improbable, and the many worlds theorem isn't necessarily true, not to speak of the problems, that a simple imageboard like this...

Oh no, I am ruining the moment, am I?

>>2258
Tears.
Congratulations, OP... you just convinced me to suicide. Bye.

Sorry guys. I thought it would give you hope.
IT doesn't matter, if there's the tiniest notion that she could get that I love her too, I'll do anything relay that message.

Okay, So I'm going to use Desu-chan as a sort of multi-universal communicator. The multi-verse theory states that every possible outcome is existent, so I choose to believe in some other universe you(Anon) love me as much as I love you.
You give me a reason to exist, even if you really don't exist in my eventuality. You make me...truly happy. No boy in my reality would ever make me as happy as you could. I just want you to know, I love you back. I love you.

To the people of this board:

I tend to believe that in the universe I'm referring to, Anon watches me in a sort of anime and feel the same way about me there as I do about him, here.

I also believe that in an eventuality, YOU TOO have a Anon that watches you!

I'm hoping the magic of the chan will get my message to him.

See, each doll has a different type of "fan"
Suiseisekifags are usually immature desu spammers. The rest like her tsundere tendencies.
Shinkufags are usually much more mature, but not as smitten as the souseisekifags.
Suigintoufags are into sadomasochism. Also, goth-girl fetishes and into girls with daddy issues.
Kanadafags are just there.
Barasuishoufags I have no clue about.
But Souseisekifags...They definitely act extremely mature...but they're also extremely Love-sick with Boku.

Last edited 10/09/06(Mon)20:33.

>>2263

>But Suiseisekifags...They definitely act extremely mature...but they're also extremely Love-sick with Boku

You meant "Souseisekifags", didn't you?
But I must agree with at least one point:

>Suiseisekifags are usually immature desu spammers. The rest like her tsundere tendencies.

I'm glad I'm "the rest" of Suiseiseki's fags, though I used to spam "desu" once, when I was just a stupid newfag... but now I'm more mature and I just appreciate cuteness and tsunderess of her.

>>2263
Well, if not outright love-sick, then still very much longing.

I'm not completely sure why, actually. I guess it's that mix of maturity, loyalty and rationality she emanates as a character.

Like basically all stylized fictional characters, they are of course unreachable in real life, but a girl even a bit like boku is IMO both infinitely hard to find and infinitely desireable.

Also, who can possibly resist the looks of her?

I know my love for Souseiseki, makes me a little sick in the head, but that doesn't bother me.
And I believe there's a different type on "fan" for every doll. I fell for the doll I know I'd really fall for.
But "love-sick" for Souseiseki? Yes, indeed.
This worlds girls are cheating, heart-0ripping whores, and I know Souseiseki would give me real love. She's fucking incredible, make fun of me all you want, I love a being that most likely doesn't exist, but if she does, I want her to know she's fucking beautiful and I'd let her use all my medium power to save her own life.
I probably sound like a nutjob right now.

>>2266
Nah, I feel you man...

But then again, I am a fellow nutjob I guess.

>>2266

Nah man, because
1.everyone here loves boku too.
2.Boku is lurve <3

What is it about her. She's so beautiful. I've been watching anime for(Let's see, started digimon around 9-10, so about 11-12 years) a long time, and some about Souseiseki. I've fallen head over heels. I don't even look up hentai of her. I feel a sort of...pure...love for her. I just want to embrace her... Want her to feel safe in my arms(even though she could kick my ass), I want to make love, kiss her, comfort her when she's sad. I've never even felt that way when I've had a real girlfriend. I've never felt this way, and god damn it, she doesn't exist on this plane. If at all. She gives me a reason not to an hero. No joke.
But, her non-existance might just drive me TO an hero.

Damn it, I can't type right when thinking about her either. The thing that give me the most solace
is Rozen Maiden: Alibat, in which I help Souseiseki(Chosen every time, but you knew that)
OWN the other dolls. But, I have to change my language setting(To japanese) for the game to work. I swoon hard

>>2270
Well, I have a theory thatworks for me personally...

I know that IRL I have pathological trust issues, and that overall I always felt more deeply rooted in works of fiction and abstraction in general, be it science or fiction - a world that follows certain abstract rules always appealed to me more than reality.

Souseiseki represents ideals like loyalty, reason and maturity, both in style and personality, that I hold most dear and I find lacking in reality. (Also like many anime characters, she's visually designed to be overall desireable.) That's also why I actually don't feel like looking up hentai and just squeezing one out over her, because my connection to her as a character is not about sexual but deeply rooted emotional frustration with the world.

I actually do know and accept that I am a "nutjob" in most people's eyes. That won't be the case for all boku fans (not even for all obsessive boku fans), but I know I am a nutjob, and I don't see what's so terribly wrong with that.

>>2273
Agreed. It's not an emotional frustration with the real world that drives my love for Souseiseki. I feel a spiritual connection with her. I figure it's probably insanity, but I, too, have never had a problem with my own insanity.

>>2272
Does it work with Applocale? That might make it a lot easier.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=8C4E8E0D-45D1-4D9B-B7C0-8430C1AC89AB&displaylang=en

Jeez, you guys are just in love.
It really makes me laugh when people say shit like "LOL LUV DOESN'T EKSISZT!!!111", because it obviously does. True love isn't very sexual. Anyways, I suggest you write a fanfic or song or something about her. Something artistic usually makes you feel better, and makes OC for us bokufags too.
And we're all insane in one way or the other, The people who created the laws for "Normality" were emotionless bureaucratic cocksuckers.

>>2276

You said it, bro.

All I want to do is sing to Souseiseki. I've written a few songs about or to her.
I just want to sing to her.
It makes me less lonely to know I'm not the only one imagining every night that I'm falling asleep with Souseiseki in my arms.
Love hurts. Badly. All I want is to hold her.
Us Souseisekifags are the romantics. She just seems so...sad... I want to make her happy, even if that were to mean we couldn't have sex for some reason. I just want to make her happy. Even if that were to mean I have to die. I'd give my life for her.

>>2276
You know, I do understand why people would consider falling in love with a fictional character to be not "normal". From how this is obviously an escapist's way to avoid the problems of love in a relationship with real people, to how it is bound to never be able to be fulfilled in reality.

That just doesn't keep me from doing it none the less.

Also, one should never forget that love can be intense enough to be an insanity by itself.

And last but not least, my artistic skills are rather underdeveloped, unfortunately.

>>2277

>I want to make her happy, even if that were to mean we couldn't have sex for some reason. I just want to make her happy. Even if that were to mean I have to die. I'd give my life for her.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

>>2278

I wish I truly were insane. Maybe then, I'd be able to be with her in my mind.

I love her to the point that if she hated me, I'd kill myself if it would put her mind at ease, make her happy. I'd do literally anything for her to be happy.
Yes, anything.
So you know how serious I am, let's make a theoretical situation; If she wanted to screw me in the ass with a strap-on, I'd be down for that. But it isn't about sex. Of course, I would, but ONLY if she wanted to.
I want to hold her. I want to hold her and tell her how beautiful she is. I want to hold her and tell her she completes me. All I want in life is to tell Souseiseki she's the single most incredible girl across every eventuality.
, I'm lonely. I'd be lonely if I had a real g
Fuckirlfriend.
Souseiseki is so...intelligent...beautiful...
Her graceful beauty has me swooning. I can't stop myself from thinking about her...

>>2280

gardener. Get a fucking acoustic guitar, and write an album of songs.
It'll be one of the most beautiful albums ever created. You remind me of jeff mangum and his love of anne frank which caused him to make "ITAOtS".
Sou is your muse.

OP, I'm afraid I have to tell you that, even if you want me GTFO then.
Your love is not real love. See, there is a love and "love". The real one COULD BE fullfiled with feelings, but it doesn't have to. One thing that is important - in real love you're completely dedicated to MAKE SOMEONE'S LIFE REALLY BETTER AS GOOD HUMAN, because the main task of love is making people's life better, what's more - IT'S BEYOND EVERY FEELINGS, so it's reasonable, mature, ready to such dedication like making someone's entire life better. BUT your feeling is blind "love", you could do anything for Souseiseki... even if she asked about it, though you know it would make someway her worse (her soul, goodness, character etc.) or hurt yourself, what equals what I sad before - it'd make her worse as person, because that'd mean she like to play with you and you allow that. So when you're doing whatever someone wants (for love ofc), you're doing it because of fascination which you're feeling only thanks to chemical reactions in your brain. That's sad, but that's also true. This romantic feeling called "love" is nothing but chemical reactions in human's brains. But the real love is serving for someone's sake, no matter what you're feeling for particular person(s), even if you hate someone but also care (just like your brother or sister) - it's real love. But what's the main difference between your blind feeling and real love? Real love doesn't come from feelings, but sense of duty - you feel responsible for someone and want do whatever you can to make someone's life better; but "love" comes from your brain and it's chemistry, and because of it you're eager to do ANYTHING for someone if that person wishes. See difference? Doing whatever someone wants doesn't equal doing everything to make someone's life and personality better. You could do anything for Souseiseki? Well, you feel something nearly unimaginable, nearly, because it's unable to being described, but a lot of people have felt something like that in their life. Myself, I've fallen in love with one girl so deep that I was thinking about her all the time and trying to meet her and be with her, and I was fucking sad when I was alone, withoug her. But this feeling sadly didn't match with our chances, we couldn't even be together because of immaturity of my feelings, though they were maybe even DEEPER than yours (because juvenile love is always as stupid as deep...).
And that's another point - feeling "the love" most of the time means that you want to be with someone and you're sick when you can't - and I see you're sick. You can't help that Souseiseki isn't real and that tears you apart. Real love is not always linked with feelings, what makes it really mature and prepared for it's task. Feelings are bad foundation for something like that - they're getting weaker and weaker after some time and hard life experiences (which everyone have, especially married people - I assume you'd marry with her). BE HONEST - if Souseiseki was real and you were together, you wouldn't be longer than few years, maybe even months together. Because this what you feel to Souseiseki is inside your brain, not soul. Brain is used to change its mood and chemical reactions, so even the biggest "love" with no cover like sense of duty or fact that you really care about person and it's ENTIRE LIFE is going to fall.
This doesn't mean that I don't understand you - quite opposite in fact. I used to be in love with a videogame female character and I was feeling almost something like you're now, maybe just weaker. But, well, I knew it made no sense, so slowly I forgot. And I forgot even about my feeling to the girl who I wanted to be with. Well, maybe not forgot, neither about girl, nor about videogame character - something like that can't be forgotten. But now I feel nothing to them. Though I become quite sad when I'm thinking about it...
"Love" mostly equals insanity, yeah. But love has to be mature and responsible - I couldn't call that your feelings. It's sad but true - you don't really love Souseiseki. You're sickly fascinated with her, and that would be harmful. Seriously. My advice: try to forget. After you call me cold 'faggot without feelings and any real knowledge about love', think about what I said. Don't try avoid thinking about Souseiseki, but just don't try to think about her and your life which you could get together if she was real as well. You have to remove this sick feeling from your brain, seriously. It could feel fucking awesome (even if it hurts, it doesn't exclude that), as "love" is used to be felt, but this won't lead you anywhere - well, maybe to being completely insane.
English-is-not-my-first-language-faggot here, so don't mind any mistakes. I just had to say all of it - I used to feel something like that, but to real person, and trust me - such blind feeling is fucking dangerous even with very real humans, though it feels also fucking awesome - and it fucking destroys people from inside. To love someone for serious you have to be beyond what you're feeling, you must be reasonable in order to not harm someone who you love... and yourself. Because everything, even the most beautiful on the world, is bad - when it hurts someone, including you. I learnt it too late - maybe I could help you now.
Regards, don't mind huge textwall, because what I said is really important if you're serious. If you're trolling, well, I fucking wasted my time.

>>2282

Cool story, bro

>>2282

Also, I'm not insane enough to believe I AM Souseiseki. You're WAY more fucked up in the head then I am, dude. This "letter" that I sent, I KNOW it wouldn't be replied to by Souseiseki. You're an idiot for thinking I'd actually believe you are her.
I maybe be just a little crazy, but I'm also both conscious of it, and have a high IQ. I'm not an aspie, in fact, you'd have NO idea who I was if you met me. I mean you wouldn't know me insanity if you met me. I'm pretty normal to everyone else. I blend in.
So, dude, it's sad that you take pleasure in trying to ruin someone's hope/fantasy. That's asinine. I know what I do is in pretense, but this is just some hope for the artistic character, if the multi-verse theory is correct, can receive the love I have for her.

Edit: I thought you said "you don't love me"
Eh, dammit misread.
Edit 2: Oh wait, you did. hahahahaha

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)02:18.

>>2281

I play an electric. I'm a shred guitarist, but I agree with you. Maybe I could post the album once done. I have recording software. Don't listen to the assholes trying to come in and troll.

>>2285
Do it.
Make the most beautiful music you can.
Don't worry about it sounding correct.
Play with your heart, not your head.

>>2286
You're awesome. You understand.

And to answer the troll's marriage question, yes, I would marry Souseiseki IF SHE WAS REAL. I would not care if my family/friends thought I was a freak for marrying a living doll. I'm dead serious

>>2262

For you.

See, I'm not young OR that ugly.

edit: I just realized I fucked up my stamp. It's says "..and Sissors" instead of "..and Guitar" Damn it.

Also, inb4 someone pretending to be Souseiseki says "I would nevar d* sum1 leik u"

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)04:13.

Can I ask an honest question? Why Souseiseki?

Don't get me wrong here. Conceptually Shinku is my ideal. If I met a girl in real life who was just like Shinku, I'd be lovestruck. But then there's Suigintou, who I love in a "I would unhesitatingly kill for her if she asked me to but I will forever be unworthy to so much as lick her boot" kind of way.

Why though? There are of course their mannerisms and aesthetic appeal, and on that level alone I quite like all the dolls, from little chibi Ichigo all the way to batshit insane Kira, and yes, even Boku.

But that isn't enough to make me fall in love of course. Shinku and Ginsama are alike in many ways. They are both unwavering in their dedication to their chosen goals. In each case, their commitment to the Alice Game was unquestioned until a new value made them reevaluate their priorities, namely Shinku's love for her sisters, and Gin's love of Megu. But even then, this never weakened their resolve, it only gave them more strength to fight to protect those they loved most.

Gin is a special case of course. She is a doll predetermined to desire something that she believes is inaccessible to her. She was born in pain, and it drove her to hysterics and depression. Like the other dolls, she has no real choice but to love Rozen, and like the other dolls she has the free will to value other things and people as well, but in her case her choice to stop thinking only about herself and actually love another person is just that much more remarkable considering how much her sanity and self-image are dependent on the outcome of the Alice Game.

I say this to make a point: these dolls did something really worthy of respect, and adoration. They can learn and love, and fight for the things they love.

What about Boku? I'm sorry to say this but I don't like her at all. What has she done to earn my respect? She has one focus, and that's to please Rozen. She doesn't care who she hurts or kills to achieve this end, even if it means sacrificing herself. She certainly has integrity, but her vicious, thoughtless disregard for the other dolls, ESPECIALLY Suiseiseki is monstrous. She is a pragmatic altruist - a personality traditionally reserved for dictators, religious zealots, and pretentious mediocrities. The ONLY joy I derived from her character was seeing her Roza Mystica promptly rended from her body after her idiotic and suicidal battle against Suigintou, a mere 20 minutes after declaring her intention to wage a mindless, selfless war on her sisters. Hey, at least she died serving her beloved cause?

I could never love Souseiseki because she doesn't know what love is. Her love for Rozen is more like a duty - an unchosen obligation that supercedes her own life and values. People like that are what's wrong with the world.

I'm trying to be fair though. I would much rather like Souseiseki, but I've never come up with a reason for why I should. As far as I'm concerned, she's an even bigger asshole than Barasuishou, because as one of the "good" guys, she should have known better!

Please prove me wrong.

>>2288

We both seem like the type of guy that'd like tomboys.
I bet you can guess what loser I am, no?

>>2289

You can't help who you love.
>>2290

hehe, honestly, no idea.

edit:And yeh, I've usually dated tomboys. There's so much "chill-er" if you catch my drift. Souseiseki is more beautiful to me then the rest of them combined.
She stands up for what she believes in.
I just fucking love her.

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)03:57.

>>2290
The idiot with the geetur.

>>2293
fuck yes
brofist to another guitarist

And also, you're not bad-looking either, no homo hahahah

>>2294
Thanks.
We're just trying to get by man.
I remember I had a girlfriend back in the day who had a short wispy haircut not unlike boku. Also, I just like the way she acts. She's the straight man to Desu. Both of those make me like Sou.
Pic related. Elle etait mon amour...

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)04:08.

>>2289

And I agree with you, about Souseiseki's behavior.
Even Shinku realized that her sisters were more important the that Rozen faggot and his Alice game, but I truly believe I could make her see the importance of love over blind loyalty/duty, and I believe she could fall for me if I showed her how senseless battle is, and that someone can fall in love with her, care for her, not just want her to complete some stupid, senseless ritualistic "game" where the object is to kill those you love to become some faggot's "perfect girl"
I already think Souseiseki is a perfect girl.
See, I'm an empath and healer. I fall for the damaged ones, because I want to help them, "fix"
their damage, show them how to love for real.

fixed typo

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)04:10.

>>2296
どうして?

Maybe you could make her understand. Maybe. But I don't really see how. What possible motivation could you provide greater than what she already had?

For her, Rozen was God. And his word was Truth. I just don't see how you can reason with someone who's rejected reason as a way of doing business.

Besides, as is already known: the details of the Alice Game are a little sketchy. So I don't know quite where they got the idea that they had to kill each other, since Rozen shows up and says "yaloljk, you can be friends". But that guy is sketchy too so who the hell knows. The point is, Souseiseki listened to a voice in her head that told her to kill other people. Ok, all the dolls have knowledge of the Alice Game so Boku's not really schitzo, but all the other dolls elected not to play the game unless they had another specific reason to win.

Suigintou: Self-worth, and eventually the much better goal of saving Megu.
Kanaria: Did it for Micchan. Probably didn't really appreciate what she was doing anyways.
Suiseiseki: Didn't want to play.
Shinku: Realized how much she loved her sisters and stopped short of taking Hina's Roza Mystica. Felt like shit after bumping Ginsama off by mistake.
Hina: Didn't want to play.
Barasuishou: Not even a real Rozen Maiden, and she was probably designed as an insane killer, but even SHE was doing it for Enju, who actually had the decency to like, you know...be there for Bara. Hey whatever though, even evil has loved ones.

I'll leave Kira out of this since we're really just discussing the animu. Only Boku played it straight. She didn't do it for ANY other reason, whereas the other dolls played only when it served another sensible purpose. That's total madness - sacrificing yourself and killing people on faith. Tell me I'm wrong!

Hey, maybe you could be with her long enough that she'd grow so attached to you that she wouldn't put your life together at risk over the Alice Game. But...you know they've been around for a LONG time. Even in the late 1800's it was evident they had been through a few cycles before. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they're 200 years old or more. I think she's had plenty of time to think about what's important to her.

I want to raise just one more point, that really seems glaringly obvious: if broken dolls are your thing, then well...do I really need to finish this sentence? Bring some Yakult on the way over...

If you know about healing people who are in a lot of emotional pain, you ought to know that a) you can only help those who want it, and b) Souseiseki's not in pain, at least not as far as I can tell. If she is, then she's more stoic than anyone I've ever seen in real life, or in a story. Even as an aside, you never see her express the slightest regret or doubt, beyond some superficial discomfort. But a furrowed brow isn't really an appropriate response to the thought of killing your family.

I don't want to burst your bubble, and I'm not trying to, but realistically, I think she would view your attempt to change her as intolerant, and manipulative. She has her values, and being as subjective as they are, I think if you tried to change her, she'd just find it really disrespectful. I mean, it's not like I'm making that up: that was virtually her exact reaction when Suiseiseki reacted to her decision, and Shinku didn't even try to sway her.

Soooooo...yeah, I don't know. Like I said, Ginsama is more appealing if damaged chicks are your thing, but I've had enough of that for one lifetime, which is why I'd like a nice, calm, collected Shinku. And it helps that I'm a tea guru of course. (Orange Pekoe? But of course - do you want Assam or Darjeeling? Which estate? Which flush?)

I want to make this clear: Souseiseki's self-sacrificial homicidal mania aside, everything else about her is wonderful. I mean, I guess you could say that about Bara as well, but on topic: yes, Souseiseki would be perfect otherwise, although I don't think that's saying very much.

>>2297
For whatever strange reason, that makes me like her even more.

>>2297

I'm not going to write something that long, but I'll address each question as they appear.

First of all, I wouldn't try to actively "change" her, only support her in whatever action she would take, even if it would hurt me. Like telling her to use all my medium power, even if it kills me, and I'd do it without attaching strings like asking her why she wants to hurt her sisters. I'd be there for her. I think that'd help her to see that love doesn't have to come with a price.

>alice game

Yeah, I don't know what the REAL rules of the alice game are, or why Rozen would even make such a thing. You know, pit sisters against each other. What a sadistic piece of shit! But I think Souseiseki's obsession with the game stems from duty. It's straight-up for her. IT's like
"This is your soul purpose in life" for her.
But honestly, When Souseiseki cut Suigintou in half on Overture, it made me fucking angry. I teared up over poor Suigintou.

It's just, I think I could show her how love for love's sake, not because of a sense of duty. I'd show her what REAL unconditional love is, not loved based on the fact that if you win the game I created for you, you become my vision of the perfect girl, and I honestly believe I could change Souseiseki's view on life, as well as her appreciation of her sisters.

I'm not into "Broken" dolls, I used the word "damage" as strictly a metaphor.

And it's not emotional pain I want to heal. I believe that Souseiseki has such a low self-image, she believes that becoming alice is the only way to be truly loved.
Now if you're asking me "WHY DO YOU LOVE HER"
It's simply this: She's strong, beautiful, and I honestly believe that if someone loved her, she'd be such a sweetheart.
I guess it's really the sadness I have for her being. Her hate seems so strong, I just want to love her all the more.
If I were to die in her spiritual, emotional healing, so be it. I'd have died for what I believed was right. If she killed me because of my love, then she wasn't ready to heal.

Edit:Sorry about the typos. I type far too fast, and now I can't find them all

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)06:00.

Sorry, I'm not...intentionally trying to make posts this long. It just keeps happening...

>>2300
Nice get

And it's all good. We're having a GREAT conversation. I'm really enjoying this.

Also, notice I said "I'm not going to type that long of a response" and guess what happened anyway? haha

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)06:03.

>>2299
Well, like I said before: I accept that there are times when it would be perfectly rational to lay down your life if needed to protect something or someone so important to your life that you would sooner die fighting for it than live without it.

As a self-proclaimed soldier in service of the Neu Mercurial Partei, obviously Ginsama serves that role amongst the Rozen Maidens as far as I'm concerned. But I already explained why: her passion for her chosen values is what's key here, both because she's passionate AND because they are CHOSEN. Hell, it was that sheer force of will that she used to bring herself to life. That commands some respect.

This time my point is that before stepping in front of a bullet for someone, I'd want to make sure I had a damn good reason for doing it first. I don't want to press this issue, but if you're not a few fries short of a happy meal, then you should know what it is about Souseiseki that does this for you. After all, I value my life enough not to lose it for a bad reason.

>alice game

Yeah, we pretty much agree on all points here. That's just fucked up. I'm not big on the whole "malevolent universe" thing. It's pretty balls that they were put in the position they were in. The only reason I'm trying to see the good side of Souseiseki is because I realize that under different circumstances I wouldn't have the reasons to despise her that I do. I still stand by the fact however that participation in the Alice Game was not mandatory, and thus she is still fully responsible for her actions.

Oh, and the Ouverture incident. For that alone you should be grateful that I haven't called for Boku's head on a pike. I was more than a little incensed over that.

I realize you used damage as a metaphor. I was just doing a play on words...cause you know Ginsama's...uhm, abdominally challenged condition was much more significant emotionally than physically. She really HAS self image problems. I would argue that Souseiseki actually doesn't. She knows she's loved actually...and it doesn't change her mind. The one thing about the Alice Game that we know for sure, and the dolls knew for sure, was that Rozen was trying to create Alice, and they weren't Alice. But they still had the free will to choose not to participate. They could say "yeah well fuck that shit" and live together peacefully. It was an option. As important as the Alice Game was to their existence, it was still left to them to decide how important it was to them personally. Souseiseki's motivation to participate had nothing to do with how she viewed herself, only with how Rozen viewed her, and that's one thing we know for certain!

So the problem isn't really self-image. I think she had quite a great deal of self-esteem, but she just chose the WRONG thing to be of importance to her. The root cause of her problem is a philosophic one, and love alone isn't enough to overcome bad thinking. Even suicide bombers get kissed goodbye. I'm not suggesting an approach here, but even electroshock therapy would probably work better than giving her whatever she wanted unconditionally and hoping for the best. Just saying.

>She's strong, beautiful, and I honestly believe that if someone loved her, she'd be such a sweetheart. I guess it's really the sadness I have for her being. Her hate seems so strong, I just want to love her all the more.

I just don't think that's the problem. She's just a stoic trooper, sworn to uphold a duty, irregardless of things like love and hate. I agree, she's strong and beautiful, and under different circumstances she'd be...well, different. But you could say that of Genghis Khan as well. If you want to fix Souseiseki, you'd have to get her to make some fundamental changes to how she evaluates things. Good luck.

Despite my words, I get how you feel about Souseiseki, but you can't let your emotions alone guide you. There's rational love, and there's irrational love. In either case you feel the same, and you might be willing to give your life for her, but you're crazy if you don't know why.

edit: fixed the quote, also I would have made a less shitty GET if I'd been paying attention. soz.

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)06:47.

>>2302

Running on raw emotion has always been my problem in a relationship. (I do mean real relationships, as in IRL)
I think the fundamental reason for my love for her is she reminds me of myself, barring the "I don't give a fuck about anyone, I want to please god(which I believe Rozen may be an allegory to) and do what he wants" thing. I think we could heal together, and that I could heal her if I, for example, threw myself on her as Suigintou was about to finish her(and hope she doesn't kill me, lol, maybe she'd think the gesture was cute, but I'd be willing to take the risk) , or the "use me if I have to die" thing. In the situation I imagine, we didn't previously know each other, and I've grown fond of her enough to do this type of thing. I used unbiased logic and character analysis when I'm running these situations in my head, I'm sort of OCD, and if her behavior wasn't in character, I wouldn't be happy with it. I honestly believe if I sacrificed enough for her without asking anything in return, she'd realize how futile the alice game is. I'm thinking that if there was a season four, Shinku would've brought Souseiseki back to life, and told her that there's other ways to win the Alice game. I like to think that if all the sisters choose love over fighting, they ALL win. It'd be the only way Rozen would be a benevolent person. Then, they could see father anytime, kinda like SuiSeiseki and SouSeiseki being able to seen "Grandma and Grandpa" , and would be free to do what they want, go in n-fields, whatever. If that were to happen, Souseiseki wouldn't be burdened with obsessive need to do her duty. hmm, maybe her obsessiveness with winning the Alice game, her compulsion to to it, maybe that's what drives me. I feel I'd do the same. I can identify with the wanting to meet my father, too, as my father has died. I wouldn't kill my siblings to meet him, but I can still identify to a lesser degree.
You know, it's really just like I said earlier, I just can't help but love and adore her. I really can't exactly place it.

Edit: Eh, the GET was kind of a small one anyways haha. Here it's kinda big hehe.

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)07:44.

Expanding on the futile protection thing:
It'd be like I'm being suicidally loyal. Maybe seeing me in such a futile act would make her realize some things, and I really doubt that, as her medium, she'd want me to do such a thing as throw myself on her to protect her in the face on imminent destruction. I know that I'd be one she grew fond of. I fancy myself her "type". The point is, I think if she grew fond enough, such an act would make her fall in love with me, and if she fell in love with me, hopefully she'd abandon this suicide/murder mission. Hopefully she'd find me more important then the Alice game. I'm starting to wonder if she would though, honestly. I have faith, it's just, I know that logically, faith is unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Expanding on the futile protection thing:
It'd be like I'm being suicidally loyal. Maybe seeing me in such a futile act would make her realize some things, and I really doubt that, as her medium, she'd want me to do such a thing as throw myself on her to protect her in the face on imminent destruction. I know that I'd be one she grew fond of. I fancy myself her "type". The point is, I think if she grew fond enough, such an act would make her fall in love with me, and if she fell in love with me, hopefully she'd abandon this suicide/murder mission. Hopefully she'd find me more important then the Alice game. I'm starting to wonder if she would though, honestly. I have faith, it's just, I know that logically, faith is unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

And as for Suigintou, one could argue it's her fault she wasn't finished. Because of her love for Rozen, she ran off before he could complete her. I know she didn't realize it, but I'm just saying.
I love all the dolls, and Sougintou is one I'm especially fond of(She was the first one I beat Alibat with, but she's HELLA cheap on that game. She's crazy strong.), but Souseiseki, I just fucking love her. I wish I could rationally explain some irrational, but I can't.

edit: didn't want to triple post

Edit 2: Dude, You're damn near convincing me.
I was heated at Suigintou for the first two seasons, but it's just because she took things the wrong way, which is party Souseiseki's fault, you know, she pretty much told Suigintou she couldn't be Alice. And Souseiseki cutting her(who could barely even walk) in half in the first place, that REALLY pissed me off as well. I loved her at that point, but that was a fucking DICK move.
I gained respect for Shinku then; She took Suigintou under her wing, taught her to walk. I actually teared up at how sweet that was. I'm a goddamn sucker for that kind of shit and she's fucking awesome too. Now I'm confused, and I feel like I'm already being disloyal to Souseiseki, and I don't want to give up on her either....fuck.

One more edit:

Also, the fact that Suigintou, at the end, wanted to get the Rosa Mysticas to heal Megu, that really got me too. She's such a sweetie no matter how bad she tries to be. God damn it. I'm confused now.

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)08:33.

>>2303
You know, I've never really thought about any of my relationships in such...dire circumstances. I try to keep my life as death-free as possible, as a general rule.

I can't say for certain how she'd react to walking in front of a bus for her, since she seems to take death in stride. Remember that Ouverture thing? Shinku and Souseiseki were having their little pissing match when sweet Ginsama shows up and Souseiseki cuts her down, only to watch her be consumed in agony, and her reaction is "well that was kinda effed up - want to reschedule this battle thing"? It's even worse in the Manga when she does her master's bidding. She would have killed her master's brother's wife if she wasn't stopped. Souseiseki is driven by duty: that is a fact, and people like that simply can't be budged without a massive shift in ideology. I think it's true that the rules of the Alice Game changing would have much the same effect, but that doesn't excuse her behavior.

I see what you mean about identifying with her though. That's legit, and though I hadn't mentioned it, it's one of the reasons I'm such a Gin fan. There are other reasons I consider better however.

At any rate, Souseiseki is probably one of the few dolls who's company I could stand more than 10 minutes. I don't think Jum cursed at her even a single time. I don't know about having to live with the other dolls though; that could get really annoying, as adorable as they are. Imagine a lifetime of Hina Ichigo, Suiseiseki, and Kanaria. Shudder. I like Shinku...and Souseiseki's demeanor would fit my lifestyle very well, even though I don't know what we'd talk about. Probably we'd avoid politics, religion, and the Alice Game. Suigintou has no use for a medium of course, but if in some unfathomable act of charity she chose me for some unimaginable reason, she could have anything she wanted, twice.

I guess that's it then. Love is blind - at least in your case it is. It would have to be to overlook all the things I mentioned already. She's got some redeeming features, but the math still adds up to her being a real jerkass. There are things about her that I like, and I can imagine her being much improved if she wasn't a faith-driven zealot, but she IS a faith-driven zealot, and that's a deal breaker in my book.

Neu Mercurial Partei is always recruiting btw. Might as well join now while membership is still voluntary.

>>2304

>I think if she grew fond enough, such an act would make her fall in love with me

Mmmmmmaybe? Maybe. I wouldn't bet my life on it though. In the anime I'm pretty sure she says explicitly that Rozen Maidens are not to harm humans (I think it was her - at any rate she would know this rule), so assuming she does act to protect you, it would still be out of obedience to the rules of the Alice Game.

>she ran off before he could complete her

ufufufufufu. So he was just going for a quick walk with the other five completed Maidens? I suppose it's not necessarily impossible. That I definitely wouldn't bet my life on.

About Suigintou...her start of darkness began when Shinku told her she was inferior, and since Ginsama already has a legendary inferiority complex it didn't go over very well. I don't even think Suigintou had it in for Boku even over the whole cutting-her-in-half thing, since she wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing given her new knowledge of the Alice Game. Then Gin ups the ante by taking Shinku's broach, and Shinku calls her junk and...yeah, just bad news all around (but Shinku started it). Early Shinku was a lot like Souseiseki, and her kindness towards Suigintou was only because she was NOT a genuine Rozen Maiden at that point. Suffice it to say, I did not like early Shinku. I like later Shinku, because she develops and learns, and thinks for herself. Souseiseki never makes this transition.

The Suigintou/Megu thing is the crowing jewel of Ginsama fandom. Gin's progress as a living being is the astounding font of character that we all love her so much for.

>>2306

>faith-driven zealot

Also something I have a strong aversion to.
Souseiseki also seems to be a nihilist. She doesn't seem to care the SHE wins the Alice game, only that it's won. She honestly doesn't seem to give a fuck about death, but I think that, as her medium, if I was so ready to give my life for her, driven by (much the same as her) a sense of duty, as well as love. That, and I just couldn't stand to see her hurt. I had to stop myself from tearing up thrice: At Kanaria's death(I think that her and I would have fun. She's just so fucking adorable, I don't think she would annoy me, but Suiseiseki and Hina, oh GOD.), Barasuishou's death(That was fucking heart-rending; Her crumbling whilest crying out to her maker.) and Souseiseki's death. I think she even said something along the lines of "I don't care if I win, only that it's won, and Father is happy. What has father REALLY done for then other then make them? I know in my heart that Souseiseki didn't WANT to kill her sisters, I think she just would have gone for it if that were the case, and maybe it was so earlier, like in the story she was telling Jun in Ouverture, but I think over time she started to realize she didn't want to hurt/kill her sisters, but had an overwhelming sense of duty to do so. Like you said, I think if it was revealed(it kinda was) that the rules of the Alice game don't necessarily entail killing each other, she'd take that route.
I don't think she knows she's loved. I tend to think she won't be loved until she's Alice.

I'm going to follow my heart on this. With Souseiseki. I still have think to do, but I just ....love her...I can't get over her....

What the hell is the Neu Mercurial Partei?]

Edit: You know, I think they all have to grow and figure out what they believe in.

The anime was just so unfinished. There needed/needs to be more. One thing I do know, I love Souseiseki for better or worse.

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)09:20.

>>2308

>She doesn't seem to care the SHE wins the Alice game, only that it's won.

Yes, exactly this.

>I don't think she knows she's loved. I tend to think she won't be loved until she's Alice.

Eeeeeh, I'm going to hold my ground on this. For one, she has a very loving human master, and his wife (earlier Kadzuki-related insanity notwithstanding), and she has something that none of the other dolls have: a twin who loves her very much and never misses an opportunity to say so. Even though all the dolls consider each other sisters, the gardeners have the closest relationship and strongest bond out of all the dolls, the remainder of whom are more like friends than sisters (when they aren't enemies anyways). If that doesn't convince her that she's loved, then she's just not paying attention.

Neu Mercurial Partei is the political party of choice for loyal footsoldiers of Fraulein Ginsama. Pic related.

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)09:35.

Ok, I'm going to bed, and I'll be back tomorrow at some point so we can continue this.

Parting gift: something we can both enjoy. Pic relaaaated.

>>2308

>Souseiseki also seems to be a nihilist
>nihilist

But Boku's never been to the river in Egypt.

...I'll get my coat.

>>2311

Gin's also a hot goth bitch.
But she didn't sack rome...

Also for gardener~
<3

Last edited 10/09/07(Tue)20:18.

I just love Boku because she reminds me a lot of myself. We walk our own path of redemption and while we may hurt ones we love along the way, what we're ultimately doing is coming from a positive standpoint.

>>2314
Yeah well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...but it still leads to hell.

Souseiseki was mistaken about what the "positive standpoint" is. She fails it. Her skill is not enough.

>>2289
>>2297
>>2300
>>2302
>>2306
>>2307
>>2309
>>2310
>>2315

As good as your argument is,
HATERS GONNA HATE

>>2316
Hey, at least we can both agree that Kanaria sucks right?

If you want to stay on the Bullet train to Bokuville, go right ahead, but...uh...if I understood your post correctly, I took it to mean that reason doesn't work on you so I should stop trying.

Which I think makes my point.

>>2317

Exactly.
I guess I'm just "Crazy" for Souseiseki!

We need no 'reason' per se to love Souseiseki.
When I first watched RozenMaiden, I was attracted to Shinku, like I assume most were. She was the first doll introduced, and the whole dominatrix thing, especially dressed in red, was kinda appealing.
However, that being said, I fell head over heals in love with mah Boku the moment she came on screen, and my feelings only intensified with every moment she was on-screen.
Now, as a fan of the series, I think I would agree to be a medium for ANY of the dolls - this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and if you associate with one of the maidens, that means there's a good chance you will at least get to meet several of the others. I wouldn't pass that up.
Still, after all has been said, I feel the strongest connection to Souseiseki, and I can't imagine my feelings changing.
pines away waiting for Boku to show up at his door

Last edited 10/09/08(Wed)15:28.

>>2318
Oh god, that delicious Boku

But yeah, we're all just a little messed up in the head on /boku/. It's all good - we're harmless.

>>2320
Well, I wouldn't call it an attraction...they're still dolls you know...

Anyways, I'd fit best with the more mature dolls, of which of course Souseiseki is one. The major differences between Souseiseki, Shinku, and Suigintou boil down to character motivation, and I still maintain that Souseiseki's is the worst.

Shinku, being a "normal" doll doesn't have the same issues as Suigintou, so I consider them separately. Shinku's character motivation is always very good, but it's easy to be good when you never face any significant challenges. Suigintou isn't as "good" as Shinku, but her development as a character is miles ahead of anyone in the entire story, which makes her an angel in doll form who nobody should even be allowed to look at.

I like Boku's style, but her policy of altruistic self-sacrifice makes me rage.

>>2321
You know you want a little Gin-sama. Come...join us.

Hey guys, I've been doing thinking...and I am in love with her.
No, reason won't work on me; love isn't a reasonable thing. I love her, I would do anything for her, even if she hated me. I wouldn't make a move on her if she hated me, but I'd still love her with all me heart.

Thank you, Ginfan, thank you for making me question if I really do love her. It's made my love all the stronger. You're a smart guy, and Suigintou deserves you. You two are perfect for each other.EDIT: Not meant as an insult. Thank you.
What I mean is, you're the most deserving of Suigintou's love.

Also,

>altruistic self-sacrifice makes me rage.

That's one of the things I love about her, because that's how I am.
It even kinda turns me on at the thought of sacrificing my life for the one I love...

Last edit: On a funny side note, I have Rozen Maiden paused on my tv, and GUESS WHO'S FACE IS CLOSE-UP? Suigintou. It's the part where she just stole Rempika from Souseiseki, and is taunting the other dolls.
I'll give you this: She is quite beautiful.

Souseiseki...I love you...
Pic is me...

Last edited 10/09/10(Fri)02:06.

>>2320

COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF!

Exactly what happned to me; I see Shinku, I'm like, damn she's HOT, and her slapping me around, EVEN HOTTER.

But then Souseiseki came on screen. My breath was LITERALLY TAKEN AWAY! I fell for her instantly. And every moment she's on screen, I love her more and more and more. I want to take her pain onto myself if it meant she doesn't have to feel it. I would let her sleep on my bed even if she didn't like me, and in which case, I'd sleep on the floor. I would die for her. I'd tell her I want her to use all my power, even if it meant my life, even if she hated me. I love her. I would do literally almost anything for her. I think of it in dire circumstances because it gives me perspective on how far I'd really go for her.
And trust me, girls here, don't even come close.
Not even fucking close.

>>2324
>>2325
Well uh, I'm glad to be of help...I think?

I'm just glad you actually read and thought about what I wrote. I certainly put some time and effort into writing it.

Three days ago I asked a question: "Why Souseiseki"? And I got my answer: there is no "why". And that pretty much settles it I guess.

In a lot of ways, love isn't a reasonable thing, yeah I know - but not in all ways. You said it yourself: you respond to the ones who have deeper things in common with you - values, principles, and beliefs, but those things can be changed. It may be difficult, but not impossible, and since these things are ultimately choices, you accept that they can be judged, and they will have consequences, good or bad. I can't brush off love as an irrational, thoughtless process. There are reasons for why we like and love the ones we do.

There is a big difference between altruistic self-sacrifice and a fair trade. An altruist takes a bullet for another person out of a sense of duty, because they believe their moral worth is dependent on their service to others. That's Souseiseki in a nutshell. Her commitment to the Alice Game and the things she gave up (including her Rosa Mystica) were worth more than what she got in return. It was a bad deal.

What you are talking about though is not a sacrifice. You love her. You value her life more than your own. If she were threatened, you would rather not exist, then live without her. So it's not a sacrifice. You get something more out of it than you give up, and even though you might not survive the trade, the whole point is that you would prefer that to Souseiseki being harmed.

And you know something? I completely understand that, 100%. That's the stuff of romance. I like those kinds of stories. But your "sacrifice" is not the same as hers. For an altruist, the bigger the sacrifice the better. According to that morality, the most moral thing you could do would be to give your life to protect someone you absolutely despised. And if that's truly what you believe, then yes...you're quite mad! But I don't believe that to be the case. What you said is very romantic. I like the sentiment.

Oh and yes...Suigintou is an angel, no question. Pic is very much related.

>>2326
>>2326

What does it matter who becomes Alice? All Alice is is the biggest backstabber, the worst cold-hearted bitch, the one that's selfish enough to kill all the other dolls so SHE can meet Rozen. You know how at the end of Traumend, Rozen told the Shinku that not only could she save Souseiseki, but that there was another way to become Alice, other than the game? Well, since they hadn't completed the anime, we can really only hypothesize (Unless it's explained in the manga, which I haven't read yet. Trying to find them all before I start)about how, but I like to think that if all the dolls choose each other over the Alice game, realize that they'd can't sacrifice each other, even for the game, then they ALL become a form of Alice, not changing in appearance completely, but somehow becoming more glamorous or something...
Why do you have to have a reason to love the doll you love in the first place?
As for the rest of it, WHO CARES?
Yes, I make my fantasies adhere to the canon as much as possible, but I do tend to push things in my favor, after all, it's my fantasy.

But I just don't think Souseiseki is like you say, you know, just doing it out of duty; Remember what really pushed her to want to finish the Alice game? She saw who she thought was her father crying. Beforehand, if she was really that obsessed with duty only, she would have just killed everyone as soon as she could.
Remember, at the end of the first season, when Suiseiseki knock out Nori, Souseiseki and Suiseiseki went to help Shinku. Why would a cold-hearted sociopath, driven by duty alone, do such a thing? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying..
But, It was her love for Rozen that REALLY pushed it. The fact that she's so selfless in her ways, it's one of the things that makes me love her. I guess my actions and feelings toward her could constitute a trade, in that I'd get her life in exchange for mine, but I don't really get to reap the rewards, in that I get to see her at all after the trade. I die.
And, like I said, I would sacrifice myself for her EVEN IF SHE HATED ME.
It's kinda the same for her; She gets what she wants, which is father finally getting alice, even if it's not her. How is that not the same as what I would do?

You know what, GenericGinFan9001, I like you.

But that U MAD, bullshit, it's so fucking annoying. Everytime someone says that, I imagine a nigger with his mouth full of fried chicken, watermelon, and genital herpes(Yes, on the mouth) saying it.
If I wasn't mad before, that shit makes me mad.
Not at you, per se, but at the fucking retard who made it a meme.

Let me ask you this; Do you need a reason to love Suigintou? Why? Love is love, and I've learned that you can't really help it, who you fall in love with, that is.

^_^

Pic for you, something I screencapped. Look at the filename. hehe

And yes, Suigin Tou was the first Rozen Maiden I beat AbiBat with. She's got the best attacks heh. Now, of course I use Souseiseki, and she's the fastest, now I've become quite adept with her.

Edit2:Wow, it doesn't say the original filename.
Well, it's an upskirt. Yeah, she has and alternate outfit.

Last edited 10/09/10(Fri)08:54.

>>2327
Hmm, I thought "umad" was kind of funny. Guess not.

Anyways, all I said was Suigintou IS Alice. Forget the Alice Game. Hypothetically, if she won it, she wouldn't change. You can't improve on perfection.

You make a really excellent point about Souseiseki. Her love for Rozen is like your love for her. It is the same principle, but the difference is that she's not just giving up her own life for Rozen's happiness - she decided to give up everyone else's too. That's just not the kind of call you get to make.

Granted, it doesn't matter if her love for Rozen or your love for her is rational or not - at least it doesn't matter in terms of what you'd personally be willing to give up for her (or her for him). That's for you to decide. However...I can say with complete certainty that you cannot morally make that choice for someone else. Souseiseki can and does believe Rozen's "Alice" is worth her life. She believes it's worth more than the lives of all the Rozen Maidens, so she starts the Alice Game. If you ask me, the Alice Game can basically be thought of as a metaphor for killing in the name of God.

Well, I presume you already know what's wrong with that. Besides, what if Souseiseki had been successful? By starting the game she accepts that she would either have to kill Suiseiseki herself, or let someone else do it. The first is barbaric, and the second is cowardly. I can't illustrate my point much better.

For the sake of discussion, I've only focused on her primary motivation. It's true that she's not a single-track droid hell-bent on completing the Alice Game. She does care for other people and dolls, but I think she always considered the Alice Game an inevitability, and she was just living on borrowed time. I'm quite certain she didn't personally want to start the Alice Game either, but when push comes to shove, everything else she cared for put together was less important to her than Rozen (or she wouldn't have played obviously).

I never said Souseiseki was a complete monster. She's got a lot of humanizing aspects that of course I approve of, but the elephant in the room is that her philosophy is...well, awful.

I'm also aware of the fact that I'm looking at this from a human perspective, where sacrificing other people's lives for your ideals is wrong. The Alice Game represents a unique snag in the moral fiber for the dolls. Their nature as Rozen Maidens and their concomitant moral authority (Rozen), basically gives them the green light to have at it and take each other's Roza Mysticae. Therefore, since it's not wrong per se to participate in the Alice Game, it's not right to condemn Souseiseki merely because she decided to play it straight.

Consider this: I am very much aware that Souseiseki's decision to take the other dolls' Roza Mysticae in order to please Rozen is a direct parallel to Suigintou's decision to do the exact same thing in order to save Megu.

How then do I justify Suigintou's eternal stature as an unspoiled angel, and my miserable contempt for Souseiseki?

As I established, the Alice Game is a unique moral paradigm that only applies to the dolls, not us (which presumably is why they are forbidden to harm humans, even to further their goals). The nature of the Alice Game is such that it is not morally wrong to participate. So then the real question is only motive. The other dolls are Suigintou's enemies. She does not value their lives. She plays the game for herself and for Megu.

The same isn't true of Souseiseki. At least I don't believe it is. My opinion of her is formed on an induction I've made about her character through observation. I can't look inside her head and see what she's thinking. However, the archetype for her character is genuine sacrifice. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think we already agreed on this before.

Unfortunately, this means having to take yet another step back. What constitutes a sacrifice for a Rozen Maiden? In order to answer this, we need to estimate Rozen's importance to the dolls. It is true that they all have an innate love of Rozen that they always feel and can't reject. However, it can be overpowered. Shinku and Suiseiseki prove this is true. They still love Rozen, but they love each other more, so they stall the Alice Game from happening.

The thing is, Suiseiseki and Souseiseki are more than mirror images physically. They are inverted philosophically. They share the same relationship, and they both feel the same ingrained love for Rozen, but they make radically different choices. In an identical set of circumstances, with the same values, Suiseiseki chooses life with her twin and the other dolls, and Souseiseki chooses the Alice Game.

One of these choices is wrong, and one is right. One is a sacrifice, and one is not.

Suigintou's position in this tangled web is different from Souseiseki's (and indeed all of the good-alignment dolls). She isn't making a sacrifice because she doesn't have the relationship to the other dolls that the Gardeners, Shinku, Hina (and even Kanaria) have.

THEREFORE...in the strange Rozen Maiden universe, what we can finally conclude is that while it isn't right OR wrong to participate in the Alice Game, it is still true that the dolls can make judgments about the value of their own lives, and others. And it is true that they can value these things more than Rozen and his quest for Alice. Ultimately then, the question is: within this framework, what separates good and evil? If good is choosing something important to you, and then playing the Alice Game in order to achieve it, then Suigintou is ultimately good. If evil is choosing the Alice Game over something of greater value and importance, then Souseiseki is ultimately evil. The evidence to support this claim is supplied by Suiseiseki who acts like an experimental "control" to gauge Suiseiseki's behavior by.

Do I need a reason to love Suigintou? Yeah, abso-friggin-loutly. And I think this post mostly finalizes what I began in the earlier ones. Suigintou's development as a character is a thousand times greater than any others. I love her for overcoming a huge personal tragedy, for still being able to feel love for Megu, for knowing herself and her values, and for fighting for them.

>>2328
U mad is funny, because even though I know it's meant to piss me off, it still does, and it's one of the few things that have that exact effect, it makes me rage.

Holy fuck, that's a lot of text.

I did read it, but I'm tired, and I'll try to reply for tomorrow.
For now, I'll say this:
We have vastly different motives, different ways of showing our love, different values.
We're just two different people, and we love different dolls for different reasons.

>Alice

If I were going to say, in an unbiased fashion, who I think would REALLY be Alice, I'd have to say either Kirakishou, or, don't smile too widely, Suigin Tou.

Edit: One more thing; I think just playing the Alice game period is a huge sacrifice, especially for Souseiseki. I say that because she's willing to die for Rozen's happiness.
And don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to defend Souseiseki's actions. I disagree with her actions
regarding her complete disregard for her sisters. The difference between you and I, is that you seem to think Souseiseki is morally "bad" for wanting to make Rozen happy, even and the expense of her sisters or her own life. I don't. I liken it to this: If I had to kill my siblings, or one of them kill me and the other to save my mom's life, I'd be a pretty damn hard situation, and I don't know if I'd be able to abstain from dying for my mother to live, or killing them. I think Souseiseki is faced with a dilemma that's similar, although not life and death for Rozen.
I honestly think she views it as nearly that serious. Rozen is the bastard here, unless of course there's a win-win situation.
I don't think the Alice game is a gauge for good and evil.
How does Souseiseki's self-sacrifice for her father make her evil? Explain please.
And again, If Souseiseki knew that"there's other ways besides the Alice game", I highly doubt she would act as such.
I just tend to think you're being way too hard on her.
Remember, Suigintou used Shinku as a dartboard. That's fucked up, and it's all because Suigintou's inferiority complex led her to believe Shinku was laughing at her, when she was actually pitying her. Let's face it; Before Suigintou had a Rosa Mystica, she was ineligible
to become Alice. Shinku took pity on her and she busted the brooch Shinku loved. Up until that point, Shinku was NOTHING BUT LOVING to her, and don't even try to say different, because it's bullshit and you know it.
Now, no I'm not saying it's Suigintou's fault for having that little complex of her's. If anything, it's Rozen's. But Suigintou made a choice to save Megu, she wasn't(as you know) always like it. All I'm saying is, They're different. I don't believe one can be evil if they have empathy, which Souseiseki obviously does. She has a personality which leads her to believe what she's doing is the right path.
Blaming Souseiseki for have morals which lead her to believe she has to follow her "duty" to a fault is like blaming Suigintou for her inferiority complex, in my opinion.

Last edited 10/09/10(Fri)14:08.

>>2311

>River in eqypt

HAHAHAHAHA

I fucking lol'd my ass off

>>2313

WANTWANTWANT

Holy FUCK I want that

But which one of us will Souseiseki choose when she visits from her universe? I believe she loves me the most and I'm alpha as fuck which is a plus. I'm just saying I'd fight you guys for Sou's loev. Nothing personal

This one's a 2-part post. I think I'm the first person ever to hit the character limit on this board.

>you seem to think Souseiseki is morally "bad" for wanting to make Rozen happy, even and the expense of her sisters or her own life

Yes, yes that is what I think. It's one thing to give up your own life for something. It's quite another to give someone else's.

But like I said before, the Alice Game complicates things. They aren't human, and they don't operate by the same rules. The point I want to make is that for the dolls, it actually IS OK to knock each other off for any reason (or no reason at all).

You can say that Souseiseki's decision speaks for itself, and if she says she loves Rozen that much, then it's true. However, I beg to differ. My theory is based on the assumption that the Gardeners feel approximately the same about Rozen, each other, and the other dolls, so their radically different approaches are startling. They both have as much to lose by participating after all, so it's logical to conclude that one choice was better than the other. Since the better choice was Suiseiseki's (I'm pretty sure we already settled this), that means Souseiseki fucked up. Actually, we both already know this, but it's not because she decided to participate in the Alice Game, but why that's significant. It's my belief, based on this evidence that she gave up something more important for something less important.

To address the obvious question: there are differences in the relationships each doll has to Rozen. Suigintou's is especially painful - enough to radically impact her character. It is also true as you mentioned that Souseiseki begins the Alice Game after seeing Rozen (supposedly) crying. Is that really that significant though? What if it had been Suiseiseki who saw him instead? Would she have started the Alice Game over that? I doubt it very highly, which is why I'm comparing the two of them. I don't think that was enough of a factor to significantly change Souseiseki's mind. It's more like "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Beyond this, the Gardener's relationship to Rozen is virtually identical, and the only thing we can assume is that beyond their direct contact with him, that they all experience the same constant (but not all consuming) love for him (which is apparent in all the other dolls, excepting Suigintou as an extraordinary case).

This is the best evidence I've got, and it points to moral treason on Souseiseki's part. All we need now is Detective Kun Kun to show up and do a DRAMATIC REVEAL!

>If I had to kill my siblings, or one of them kill me and the other to save my mom's life, I'd be a pretty damn hard situation

Aside from what you already pointed out (it's not life and death for Rozen), I'd have to say..."Really"?

Maybe I'm wasting my breath here but...you do know that it's not OK to kill other people to achieve your goals, or some greater good.......right? My (diplomatically subdued) hate-on for Souseiseki stems directly from that kind of pragmatic utilitarianism. That is pure and simple evil. It is the worst moral crime I can think of.

But let's say hypothetically that you're in that situation. Like I've said before, it's one thing to give your life if you want to, and quite another to give someone else's. The only ethical and just way to proceed with this (totally insane) plan would be to ask your siblings to make the same sacrifice. And if they all agree, then go ahead. But without their permission, you can't simply kill them and expect me to approve of your actions...

>I don't think the Alice game is a gauge for good and evil.

I agree, it's not. It's a metaphysically given fact for the dolls. They're different from us. I talked about this before.

>How does Souseiseki's self-sacrifice for her father make her evil? Explain please.

I think I just did. Her self-sacrifice isn't evil on it's own, and in the context of the Alice Game, it's not even evil to take the other Roza Mysticae. However, the decision to participate in the Alice Game requires each doll to make a choice based on their existing values. Playing the game isn't right OR wrong, but there are right and wrong reasons to play. Based on the evidence I've collected (and detailed), my conclusion is that Souseiseki made a major error predicated on a wholly evil philosophy. She didn't just fuck up. She fucked up royally. She crossed the moral event horizon into an abyss of dismal failure (and she rightly pays for it with her Roza Mystica).

>If Souseiseki knew that "there's other ways besides the Alice game", I highly doubt she would act as such.

I agree. But it doesn't change how she did act.

>Remember, Suigintou used Shinku as a dartboard. That's fucked up.

Hahaha....yeaaaaaaahhh. She's a magnificent bitch isn't she? Do I approve of that behavior? No, not really, but I know why she does it. It's quite common for people who feel powerless and fearful to strike out at those who love them most. Granted, it's kinda demented, but within the context of the Alice Game it's not wrong. It would be if she loved Shinku and used her as a dartboard.

The change in Suigintou's relationship to Shinku before and after having a Roza Mystica is significant. Before she had it, she wasn't in competition with Shinku to become Alice, so yes, it would have been insane for her to attack Shinku (and she wouldn't have lasted 2 seconds - even Boku could kick her ass). But after she got the Roza Mystica, it was fair game. She knew immediately that she'd have to go through Shinku to win, and Shinku's pity enraged her. The dynamics were all different after that.

Watching her snap the broach was shocking because it highlighted how rapidly she turned from "scared ball of mush" into "nightmarishly powerful hate machine". She did it to hurt Shinku. She was being a bitch. I'm OK with that. There's still a world of difference between doing something out of hurt, and Souseiseki's pragmatism.

>I don't believe one can be evil if they have empathy

Hey, even villains love puppies. Being well intentioned doesn't make something not wrong. I conjecture that most of the world's worst atrocities started with somebody's great plan to improve the world. You can feel love and still be inexcusably evil. I say "inexcusably" but not "irredeemably". Like you, I believe Souseiseki can be redeemed. However, in real life if you kill somebody, it doesn't matter if you say sorry - you still have to go to jail.

>I just tend to think you're being way too hard on her.

Yeah, I don't pull any punches. Ultimately the whole point of the last 4 days worth of debate isn't to smear Souseiseki as worse than Hitler, but just to say there are better choices. In order to do that, I had to argue that love isn't purely subjective and that certain chosen values are better or worse than others. Even if I don't change your mind, the opportunity to write all of this has really helped me clarify my own thinking. I couldn't have done it without you though.

>Blaming Souseiseki for have morals which lead her to believe she has to follow her "duty" to a fault is like blaming Suigintou for her inferiority complex, in my opinion

I'd agree that they're both dysfunctional thinkers. And I'd agree that the values that each have chosen aren't especially rational. And if we take it at face value that Souseiseki loves Rozen enough that the Alice Game is worth it for her, then you'd be 100% right.

But as I've argued - that's not true. Emotional instability and bad reasoning aside, when the dust finally clears Suigintou is still acting in accordance with her personal values, while Souseiseki acts against them. Really how they think and what they care for are separate issues (though important). Right now all that really matters is whether or not Suigintou and Souseiseki make sacrifices to play the Alice Game. I maintain that Souseiseki does, while Suigintou does not. So while it's entirely fair to approve or disapprove of what they care about and why, the fundamental moral difference between the two is altruism and selfishness.

Souseiseki is an altruist. So are you. Suigintou is selfish. So am I. In real life, I would have no choice but to consider Souseiseki and Suigintou as both morally despicable based on their actions, but the Alice Game makes it neither right nor wrong to attack the other dolls. Within that context, Suigintou is rationally selfish, even when she acts to save Megu (because she is a value to Suigintou). But Souseiseki can't claim the same protection, because she acts against her own interest.

I apologize for quoting your text repeatedly like that, but I think it was the best way to address your points.

I hate you SO FUCKIN MUCH, OP.

Seriously.

Okay dude, so I'm kinda tired of arguing, so let's let agree to disagree. How does that sound?

>>2345
That sounds fine. I'm probably already belaboring the point, but I said what I had to say. Honestly this went way better than expected.

It's been fun. See you around the board.

Woah, looong walls of texts. Well, I'm happy that most guys on this board wouldn't dare violate Souseiseki without her permission.
I'm agreeing with both sides of the arguments, guess it's just a matter of how you see things, how much value is placed on each motivation and whatnot. I agree wholeheartedly on the spiritual connection too, but I think others will say the same too for the characters they love a lot.
I can say that I love Souseiseki, but I'm not sure how to put it in words. Platonic love? Might even be just a very strong attraction, I'm not sure. All I know is that I like her a lot; I'm usually terrible with knowing how I feel exactly and don't analyse it much, lol. And like mentioned before, you do not need a reason to love someone, you just, love. I have no intention of starting more arguments, just two cents from a female bokufag. (Board needs moar of them too.)
Peach Pit kinda dug themselves a pit (pun not intended) by having Rozen wanting them to kill each other to become Alice. It's either someone wins and all other dolls are dead or everyone lives and there's no conclusion to the Alice Game. iirc the manga version didn't say any alternate way of ending the Alice Game. The anime version says there's another way but I can't really think of a way for that to happen without it sounding like it's some sort of lame excuse. If the director is able to pull it off nicely, kudos to him. Same goes for Peach Pit.
From what I read, it sounds like most of you have yet to listen to Souseiseki's drama cd, which is about her inner thoughts and turmoil about the Alice Game. I don't think it'll change anyone's mind about anything but it's still a good listen. Go download it from http://tenshi.ru/anime-ost/Rozen_Maiden/TV2.Character_Drama_CD-IV.Souseiseki/
I'll upload the translation if anyone needs them since Unyuunymous is down.

Needless for me to repeat but I'll still do it anyway. Boku is <3.

>>2350
Are we being congratulated for not raping dolls?

Seriously though, thanks for the links. I obviously went straight to the Suigintou ones, but I gave the others a listen. My Japanese is terribad though so a translation would be sweet.

>>2346

Yeah, it has been fun.
Sorry again for that Souseiseki revenge thing.
Idk, I had just seen Souseiseki suffer her death, and I was feeling murderous. haha
See you around. I hope to have a conversation again, maybe this time about something we both agree on.

>>2350

And thanks.

I wouldn't dare touch Souseiseki without her permission.
And you know what?
I would still do anything for Souseiseki, even if she hated me to the point of wanting to to intentionally hurt me. If she tore my heart out and threw it away, I would still give me all of my life force.
See, I'm like her in that way; I want her to be happy, even if I'm always sad, I want her to life, even if I have to die.

But my hypothesis about the show is that Laplace's demon deceived all the doll into try to kill each other, as an enemy to Rozen.
I think that faggot demon has Rozen trapped, and all seven of the dolls have to be there together in order to save him, and that one has to destroy all the Rosæ Mysticæ all at once, in the same being or something to destroy them, hence Laplace having the two. But what was Kirakishou following for? I don't know, but I think Father can revive the Maidens if their Rose Mystica isn't destroyed.
hm...

This guitar is my baby, and I love Souseiseki so much, I put a picture of her on my guitar.

It's an Ibanez RG, if you're curious.

Edit: Whoops, forgot pic

Last edited 10/09/14(Tue)10:20.

>>2351

>Are we being congratulated for not raping dolls?

Doll or human, it matters not. What matters is the soul.

>My Japanese is terribad though so a translation would be sweet.

>>>/media/>>2551

Enjoy. Really, there's no excuse for anyone not to listen to them, or read the translations if they are too lazy to listen to moonspeak.

>But my hypothesis about the show is that Laplace's demon deceived all the doll into try to kill each other, as an enemy to Rozen.

To me Laplace looks more like a true neutral sadistic furry timekeeper who watches their battles for his own amusement. We'll just have to see how Peach Pit resolves it.

Last edited 10/09/14(Tue)17:47.

>>2327

>Unless it's explained in the manga, which I haven't read yet. Trying to find them all before I start

Manga's all here, brah >>>/md/>>175

Last edited 10/09/16(Thu)06:28.

>>2350
the link is dead for me :(

Good thing I found a torrent. My japanese is so basic I couldn't follow it at all, but the translation was an interesting read.

>I can say that I love Souseiseki, but I'm not sure how to put it in words. Platonic love? Might even be just a very strong attraction, I'm not sure.

I myself say it's admiration and indeed platonic love, but I can only say that for myself. One's emotions are a realm that can only be fathomed by oneself alone.

And I myself always thought the whole Idea of the Alice Game is horrible. It's like Darwin's Dolls, and I prefer Huxley's criticism of social darwinism:

"But, in civilized society, the inevitable result of such obedience [to the law of bloody battle] is the re-establishment, in all its intensity, of that struggle for existence – the war of each against all – the mitigation or abolition of which was the chief end of social organization."

If you become Alice by destroying everyone else - can you really claim that you have achieved perfection? You achieved destruction, but you did not evolve yourself.

But while that interpretation of the Alice game - the need to destroy each other - is IMO a completely wrong idea, I think Souseiseki cannot be blamed for being ready to do so. It is hinted at, that there may be other ways to finish the Alice Game, yes. But she does realize that no matter how, it has to be resolved eventually, as it is their destiny, so she acts on that eventually.

She does not believe that the perceived "dream" of everything staying the way it is, is the answer. While she does eventually follow a wrong way - IMO - she is still to be admired to follow any way at all. It is an honest mistake, and the fact that she is ready to sacrifice everything for a higher goal is still admireable in my own opinion, no matter how cruel it can seem.

I think I deviated a bit from the discussion here...

>I could never love Souseiseki because she doesn't know what love is. Her love for Rozen is more like a duty - an unchosen obligation that supercedes her own life and values. People like that are what's wrong with the world.

I don't agree with you at all. But that may very well be because I am one of the people that are what is wrong with the world (in your eyes). I personally do believe there are values, ideas and duties that are greater than myself. Somehow I always thought that a world in which life alone is the most important thing would be a sad place, as there would be nothing to live for than survival itself... And I could never sympathize for someone who is driven by pure emotion above everything else, because I myself never truly understood that for myself...

Yes, I think I fit "the people that are what is wrong with the world" quite nicely.

Perhaps that is part of the reason why I - personally - feel drawn to Boku (others may very well have completely different reasons), even though she is a very downplayed secondary character, that unfortunately doesn't evolve that much.

>>2355
Moar pics of guitar?

>>2375

This guitar doesn't have boku on it, but I wish it did.

>>2375

Here you go!
It's an Ibanez RG 370DX GP3
>>2377

Sup, my guitarist brother!
haha Dude, I printed a pic of her, laminated, then taped to mine.
Nice tele, my bro.

:3

>>2380

BROFIST to another RGfag like me!

They are excellent guitars.

Edit: I'm too poor to afford a Prestige, but I'm happy with the RG I worked my ass off for.

Last edited 10/09/21(Tue)03:40.

Teles are smooth as hell to play and have such an awesome distinctive twang. My roomie has one from the 80's and it's always a treat to borrow it for a few.

I'll have to post the two axes I got with me, and we'll turn this into a huge boku/guitarfag thread. With the gentleman OP's permission, of course.

>>2382

You have my blessing, good sir!

Pics for good measure. I have a suggestion; We should take pics with Souseiseki, and out other love, our Guitar! I think that's what I'm gonna do.

What do you gents think of MY guitar?

I'll have to apologize in advance for the lack of quality and lack of Boku, I have a not-so-great phone camera and a non-operational printer to thank for those.

But anyway, yeah, the tools of the trade. This also means that I have more 12-strings than I have conventional 6-strings with me, but 12-strings have such a beautiful sound. The song I did was recorded on the Ibanez, currently in DADDAD tuning.

>>2387

That's pretty pro, bro.

>>2387

love it

>>2337

didn't see this one:

Cool story, bro.
We're not going to fight over who she would pick, because you have no fucking idea who'd she pick.
I'm an alpha too. I'd fight anyone for her, too.
But that's not what this board is about. It's not some pissing contest, it's people loving the perfect girl
And the multiverse theory states there's several universe, meaning one universe for each of us.

>>2395

> the multiverse theory states there's several universe, meaning one universe for each of us.

But really, what are the chances of MULTIPLE Sou's from these differing universes visiting earth, let alone one from a single universe. Really fucking slim.

For all we know she could be on earth right now with someone else. Think of all the others who love her. What if I told you she's sitting on my lap as I type this?

>>2401
Well, it gets worse than that...GS&G said somewhere else that he hadn't read the manga yet...

The bad news is that if/when you get around to it, it's kinda established that having multiple copies of the Rozen Maiden dolls doesn't work. The way I understood it, there's pretty much one set of dolls for this, and any other set of universes.

At least, I think so. It's...complicated.

Hey, guitar dude who hasn't read the manga:

Did you see >>2368 ?

The manga is available if you want it.

>>2402

Very true, and at the same time, there is an infinite number of possible outcomes for each and every situation imaginable under this theory, meaning that even though one set of dolls might be bound to that law, there are an infinite number of other dolls that may or may not be watching us... and this is assuming there is any sort of observatory contact between those parallel universes and ours. And if there is, if such a thing is possible, it would also mean that each and every sentient being in the entire multiverse might have a version that watches us.

Then again, if the idea of wave function collapse is true, OP's theory is screwed six ways from sunday. Essentially, it would mean that all possibilities exist, but that they collapse into a single reality that we all experience.

>>2404
Uh...well...in the story there's a wound world and an unwound world, and the unwound universe was created when Jum decided not to wind, but...it is a little strange that his decision alone decided whether or not the dolls would exist in that world. I know he was like, the "main" medium in the story but that's only significant from our perspective. Why would his decision eliminate the dolls entirely from that world instead of just having Shinku go to another medium?

If different decisions do create different universes (as established in the story I mean), then it would make sense for there to be more than one wound world (unless Jum is for some reason arbitrarily picked as the only one responsible for the existence of the dolls in a given world). This is all speculation. I don't know. None of this conjecture seems especially useful anyways, since it's no consolation if some other "me" is out there enjoying the company of Ginsama. Kinda makes me feel worse actually.

>>2405

Indeed, in this particular Rozen Maiden story, there is only one set of dolls for some reason, and Didn't Wind Jun seemed to have erased their existence completely with his decision... which really, now that I think about it, is a huge plot hole if the whole many-worlds theory is supposed to hold true there.

Now, if we think outside of the particular story we all know, and taking the many-worlds theory into account, there will be in some universe a Rozen Maiden story where the dolls continue to exist in Didn't Wind Jun's world.

And there will be a universe where Rozen Maiden doesn't exist at all.

And one where it does, but it's actually real. And using this proposed reality as a starting point, we can assume that there are a near infinite number of possibilities of people the dolls could choose as mediums. There would be universes where they exist where you would be a medium, maybe to Gin, maybe to Boku, maybe to some unknown doll that happens to exist there. Or maybe they would exist but you would never even know.

And yes, it might be a little disheartening to know that a different you might be enjoying Gin's company, but also keep in mind that there might be universes where you're dirt-poor, or blind, or deaf, or where the world is a post-nuclear war wasteland and each and every day is a living nightmare. Or you might not even exist.

Really, if you consider each and every situation that could have arisen where you're worse off than you really are, it's not so bad. We take what we get and run with it, as we always have.

Last edited 10/09/24(Fri)22:06.

>>2406
Well, yeah. I mean...I kinda took the "multiverse theory" to basically be carte blanche to just make up whatever fantasy you wanted and assume it was true somewhere.

Like, there's no evidence to conclude that it's a real phenomenon, so it's even paradoxical in that you could say there must be a universe in which the multiverse theory isn't true, therefore it's not true in any universe.

It's a lolable theory, but it's fun to play with if you overlook that fact. Anyways, what you said is true, but I'm always thinking about how things could be better, not worse. Progress is made by pursuing success, not avoiding failure, so even though I can't influence "fate" in a multiverse, I'd still prefer a world in which I had was Gin's medium, instead of being blind...heh...

>>2411

Indeed, as did I. Really, you could take it a step further and say that there exists a universe where even if there is a universe where the many-worlds theory doesn't hold true, that universe still has many-worlds... and at this point, we're toying with the very laws of nature, as I suppose we would be if we assumed there to be a world where the Maidens exist as we know them. It's all a bunch of silly conjecture, but at the same time something debated in all seriousness in the realms of theoretical science. We personally could talk about multiverses, quantum mechanics, string theory, determinism, etc, all day, and we probably wouldn't get very far, because it's all still theory to even the "brightest." Don't get me wrong though, it's an interesting thought exercise to consider the possibilities of such a theory...

You're right about thinking about the positive, I never meant that we should live in fear of what could be worse. And as you with Gin, I know I'd rather live in a world where I was Sousei's medium rather than a world where I was blind, but I think I'd also rather live in a world where I had sight rather than being blind too. Not to discourage the thoughts of such possibilities, however. In this world, the Maidens might not exist, but the existence of even such an idea is something very real... as silly as a thought like this might be to your average person, it was Sousei that gave me inspiration for that piece I wrote. That's potent.

We take what we get and run with it... we realize the positive things we have in our world and use it to our advantage to make our world better, whether it's the entire world, our world of acquaintances, friends, family, or even ourselves. You seem like a very intelligent person. If you love Gin as much as you claim, you'll find a way to use that to your advantage.

Now... if that means you'd actually pursue making Gin or any of the other Maidens a reality, let me know, alright? :P

Is there more than one manga?

I've been reading DO NOT WIND...

I thought there was a different one...

By the way, I'm down as fuck for jumping into a black hole, if it means other universes. But, I really doubt she actually exists. Maybe everytime something artistic is created, an exponential amount of universe are created to necessitate every eventuality. Therefore, copies of the doll, to necessitate every eventuality.

Edit: Are we going to end up debating quantum theory? hahahahaha

Last edited 10/09/25(Sat)01:04.

Okay, so I'm the type who reads spoilers, and in the manga,so spoilers ahead:

SOUSEISEKI TELLS HER SISTER SHE DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY THE ALICE GAME ANYMORE AND THAT SHE LOVE HER SISTER!

>>2416

There's the original manga (arranged in the middle of that thread in "volumes") which the anime is based on (with changes) and the new manga, set in the "do not wind" world, written since the series changed magazines (scattered in "tales").

>>2414
Well, if you ever hear about an economist who commissions the creation of a series of Rozen Maiden dolls, you can be virtually guaranteed that it was me.

Maybe if you track me down someday I could have unique Souseiseki's commissioned for all you bananas. No promises though!

>>2416
I don't know enough about real quantum theory to start speculating. I've read some stuff about quantum gravity, and unified theories, but it's all a lot of fanciful guessing I think. Why don't we just stick to fantasy instead?

How's the manga reading going btw?

>this thread

so ronery

>This Thread

So how far would you go for your own Souseiseki? W...would you kill a man?

I don't really know how to answer that question about Suigintou. She's not the type to accept sacrifices, since it would be demeaning to her. I'd be an ideal medium, though it might be hard to outdo Megu. I guess what I'd be most willing to do is overlook her intention to junk Shinku, despite my really liking Shinku as well. If I had to choose, it would be Ginsama, but I wouldn't be super happy about it.

Last edited 10/09/28(Tue)08:07.

>>2436

I love the strategic Einstein placement. So fitting for some of the discussion, yeah?

>>2439

To kill a man... that would really have to depend, now wouldn't it?

If it was some innocent guy off the street, no, it would not be worth it. Now, if we're talking about someone much more specific, say, Sousei's medium, well, that would also depend on a few things. If the medium is good, well, there would simply be major disappointment on my part, but seriously, at that point, simply knowing they exist by proxy of the situation, I'd be open to just about anything at that point (meaning possibility of interactions, becoming a medium to a doll other than Sousei, etc, not murderous sprees). Now, if the medium was a total asshole or downright abusive, the gloves would come off for sure, and the punishment suitable for the crime as I see it. Even if she hated me for harming whoever it was, I would not regret it.

It would be hard to answer the first part of your question, simply because there's anything one could suggest. What I wouldn't do as her medium, however, is let her remain a slave to the Alice Game... that's the one aspect of her personality that drives me up the wall, but at the same time, it only strengthens my curiosity, maybe attraction.

Why, you might ask? I couldn't tell you... maybe it would be the challenge of ridding her of such a strong belief, not just because it would be difficult to change her, but also because my own beliefs might be challenged in the process. Or perhaps it would be the pure satisfaction I would have if I were successful... to hear her say, "I don't want to play anymore," and to know that I helped her make that choice, that would leave me happy for a long time.

Last edited 10/09/29(Wed)00:43.

>>2439
If she is willing to kill, then I too am willing to kill.

>>2445

Couldn't have said it better, myself

I would kill for Souseiseki.
When I said I'd do ANYTHING for her, I meant literally anything. That includes self-humiliation, mutilation, the like.
Like I said, if I had to give all of my medium power to her, for her to win/to save her life, I'd do it without a second thought.

Hello again, ginfan.
haha I'm still mentally tripping about seeing you last night...that was quite something

For the rest of you, Me and Ginfan hijacked a niggertits thread hahah it was awesome!

and highthememory: DUDE, I've been researching, and making up riffs, and I think I've come up with something. I'll record and send ASAP.

>>2441
If you could convince Boku to drop the Alice Game, it would certainly be an accomplishment.

I still say it's not wrong per se to play the Alice Game, but her motivation is all wrong. I think we can all agree that Rozen is a dickwad, right?

>>2445
>>2446
U Guiz...

I so don't believe you. Humans don't have an Alice Game...you can't just go around killing people, especially innocent people.

Note that I'm not saying there aren't circumstances where it wouldn't be warranted, just that they'd have to be exceptional circumstances. I'm not a moral absolutist...there are times when it's appropriate, like in self defense, to do whatever is necessary.

But to kill on her command alone? That's like. Whoa. I don't habeeb it...and I think she opposes harming humans. I could believe you'd sacrifice your own life, as counterproductive as that is, but the whole "kill a man thing" was a Klondike Bar joke...

btw, I "distilled" the 4ch0nz thread and posted it here for the Office of the Lulz Registrar. I did save the whole thing to my Rozen Maiden folder though. Was pretty epic times...

>>2447
Whatever extreme she is willing to go to, I should be willing to go to as well so I may best help accomplish her goals.

Also, I feel the need to point out that her attitude and morals/reasoning are quite different between anime and manga. In the manga, even if the old man's will and intentions are evil, she does abide by them and tries to carry out his vision. Even in the not-wound world, she KNOWS she's lying to Suiseiseki by telling her she's alive for good, but she needed Sui's power to break Kira's power. Yes, that's manipulative, but it was for the greater good of the entire party involved (Even Gin. If Boku tells Sui she made a loan with Gin, there is NO way Sui goes along with the plan and everyone is stuck in not-wound world to deal with Kira forever). I may be going out on a limb, but Boku IS the smartest doll in the game.

In the anime, it's not like she woke up and was like KILL KILL KILL. She had the dreams and originally wrote them off. But then she started thinking about her current existence and how she was not happy with it. Some people are not happy with idle utopian living and that's okay - everyone needs to have a purpose in life and living in that lifestyle wasn't a good fit for her. She's already come to terms that she needs to defeat the other 6, but that doesn't mean she has to LIKE it. Of course she takes pleasure in fighting Gin (and I guess to a degree Shinku in the requel), but how do you seriously think she'd react to fighting Hina or Kanaria? Or even Suiseiseki herself. She only made the empty threats to Sui to protect her. Boku knew she probably wasn't coming back alive and placed all her faith in Shinku and Suiseiseki. Sure, she's a bit selfish and wavering, and yet, she has a heart of metric fuckton gold.

>>2447
>>2447

I'm positive I could kill for those I love.
If I was forced into an Alice game situation, I wouldn't take the same path as her, all I'm saying is I would support her no matter what, even though I disagree with her decision.
By the way, I heard she finally DID say she doesn't want to play it anymore... =D

free irc, for my band
http://www.nonags.com/freeware-clicksandwhistles_3345.html

>>2448
And other other thing is, Souseiseki saw what she thought was Rozen, crying, and it really got to her...I agree that she's the smartest...That's one of the many reasons I'm crazy for her...
Edit:

>she has a heart of metric fuckton gold.

FUCKING AGREE. You see the look on her face when she even thinks of having to her her twin. I think she felt like she HAD to complete the game, but was DEEPLY conflicted about it, what with the love for her sisters.
Suigintou's actions are far more malicious, even if justifiable. She took Shinku's gestures completely the wrong fucking way, and went psycho(again, when Souseiseki cut her in half, I did rage. But she is forgiven because she's obviously changed a bit since then), and smashed Shinku's brooch for literally no reason, save for a misconception, and Souseiseki voicing the truth("You're ineligible". I don't know why the fuck she chopped her in half, even with that information. I tend to think it might have been a mercy gesture, seeing as how Shinku and Souseiseki were talking about how Suigintou would just disappear). What she did was fucked up, I mean how would someone teach you to walk, so they could laugh at you? What Shinku did for her was so sweet, and obviously not for the sake of making fun of and belittling Suigintou. I know, I know, Suigintou got left by Rozen, and it caused a legendary inferiority complex, but she still left that insecurity turn into hate and malice for her fellow "complete" sisters. She feels like she is junk, and feels like she'd been shorted, quite rightly, but still, she at times looks like she genuinely enjoys hurting her sisters because of something that wasn't in the sphere of ANY of the dolls control.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Rozen is a fucking asshole.

Edit 2: When I said Suigintou feels junk and that she's been shorted, and quite rightly, I meant she quite rightly feels like she's been shorted, not that she's junk. She is not junk.

Last edited 10/09/30(Thu)21:18.

Geez you guys, so much to respond to. I really want to address it all but I'll have to stick to just one thing at the moment:

>>2453

Can't use that, it's Vista and XP only... not exactly useful for a Macfag like me. I did talk to the other guy a bit and he said he might have access to a kit where he is. You should get back on MSN and we'll discuss in elaborate detail.

Last edited 10/10/03(Sun)01:11.

Guys, I'm going to apologize in advance;

I've fallen in love. With a women from this dimension. I'm still fan of Souseiseki, but my girlfriend, which again I've fallen in love, for real, with. I would feel like a traitor, but I've found that my girlfriend actually outstrips Souseiseki... She's fucking amazing. I feel that the Ideal woman I thought Souseiseki was, with her flaws, has been completely outstripped by my love, who actually has no flaws, and is incredibly sweet, instead of cold, like Souseiseki. Words do not do her justice.

You guys remember what I said about my feelings towards Souseiseki? Well, I feel stronger, actually by a lot, towards Her.
I'm so sorry guys, Souseiseki will always have a place in my heart, but I've found the one I'm most likely going to marry.

I'll post some fucking dolljoints in apology.

fuck yea

YEA BOI

Canon dolljoints

Moar Canon Dolljoints

FUCK YEA

This one's a little boyish for my taste

DROOL.

I don't intend to never come back, I'm just like, with someone I love more then I did Souseiseki, a lot, which I honestly didn't think possible.

Suigintou is so fucking hot. There. I said it.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA

MOAR KANARIA

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

HAHAHAH

haha people are fucked in the head to draw this

It's dollicon

DAMN. THis is a fucking good one. I just found it lol

wat

>>2560
Wait, what? You love a human being more than an anime character? I've seen some fucked up shit in my time, but don't you think this crosses the line?

>>2560
You Sir, are about to be fucked over.

Nah, it's cool bro. I understand how you feel.

>>2560

>Mfw you all realize that it was the longest and most succesful troll thread ever

Dozen hearts are broken now, I suppose.

>>2560
The hell are you apologizing to us for?

Apologize to Souseiseki... Now!

Y-you... you... Just.... broke her heart into... A million p-..... JUST GO! Y-y-you.... You... Bitch! ;_;

At least I still love my Boku...

>>2560

Oh, you.

GS & G - silly human - you'll be back. I ain't even mad.
Just remember - when SHE rips your heart out through your wallet, Souseiseki will still be here, still true-blue.

>>2580

>Mfw they didn't realize that and still are being trolled

Strange spaghetti, Gardener's Shears, strange spaghetti.

Strange spaghetti in this solemn city.

Maybe we should give him a break, eh? I mean, he turned on a loved one to satisfy another. SOMEHOW I think Boku would understand that very well...

I don't want to harsh your mellow, so I'll just say congratulations, and I hope things turn out for the best.

Boku would be happy for you, GSG.

>>2560
From one fantasy to another...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, more Boku for the rest of us.

Last edited 10/10/15(Fri)20:53.

And then Gardener's Shears and Guitar was never heard from again.

The end.

>>2258
-
>>2620
Best.
Story.
Ever.

I'm seriously sorry guys....and I apologize to Souseiseki...She will always have a place in my heart..Thank you for understanding...But Souseiseki really can't ever reciprocate my feelings... If she showed up in my room right now, I honestly would apologize and tell her she can do better than me.

I'm seriously sorry, I didn't forsee myself ever being loved and loving a flesh and blood, real human being ever again...

SOUSEISEKI, I'M SO SORRY!
I will always love you!

and I still play AliBat

And honestly, I miss you guys. I realized that my love for Souseiseki was a sub-conscious need to punish myself for hurting who I hurt when I was a douche-bag teenager. I wanted to punish myself by loving someone whom I know for a fact would hurt me if it were real.
Now, I'm in love with someone who's actually in love with me, and wants to fix me.

Ginfan, you understand.

>>2640
>>2644
It happens again.

This thread.

Seriously, stop, I'm dying from laughter.

Last edited 10/11/06(Sat)20:34.

The fuck?

I'm not a fucking troll

>>2649
Of course you aren't.

>>2640
>>2641
>>2644
Yeah, I do, because I was about that screwed up in the head when I was a douche bag teenager.

I think Souseiseki is a jerk with no redeeming qualities, except her contribution to the storyline. She's wooden and inflexible, even for a doll! She's an intractable pragmatist with no self-esteem and her only source of power is her unshakable dedication to her IDEA of what the Alice Game requires of her. If fail came to life, it would dress like a boy and carry around gigantic scissors.

I'm going to tell you straight up what you need to do to continue growing in life:
1) Realize that your happiness is your motive power for living.
2) Admit your mistakes and rectify them if you can. If you can't, leave them behind but don't forget them. You're not permanently indebted because you make mistakes when you were younger.
3) Know what you value and why. Make a physical list if you must. Not knowing what you want is a guaranteed way to never attain it.
4) Stay true to your real values. Deviating from them will make you feel like shit.

Ok, go.

>>2640
>>2644
>>2656
Now you're going too far bitch.

>>2656

>This thread

Deal with it, OP.

You guys...do know I'm not GS&G.......right?

>>2660

>>2661
Um, yarly?

>>2288
That's GS&G

>>2326
That's me.

derp? Besides, I think I made it pretty clear here and everywhere that I really, really, really hate Boku with a fiery passion. And I don't mean that in a "haha j/k" kind of way, I mean it in a "seriously go die" kind of way.

>>2660
>>2662
Poor you, you really thought that you're only troll itt? Because when I was talking about OP being a troll, I didn't mean you, but OP. But it's okay, we can also point at you and call you troll as well, if you wish.

>>2662
So if you're not a troll care to explain why you're here?

>>2664
I don't know? A few weeks ago we were having an actual discussion. I guess we're not doing that anymore?

>>2665
Having a discussion is fine but there's a difference between saying you don't care for a character and flat-out insulting them on a board full of fans of said character.

Case in point: I think Kanaria is an obnoxious little shit who wouldn't know a good plan if it fell out of her ass and smacked her in the face but do I go to /kashira/ and say this? Of course not.

>>2666
And in that way we are two very different people.

In my mind, I can say what I said and not be a troll at all - chiefly because I'm prepared to back up what I have to say. And uh, I've done so quite extensively in this very thread.

I don't have anything really new to say at this point, but neither does anyone else and this thread just keeps on going regardless.

So let's kind of, reboot here. GS&G is gone off to lala land, and the whole thread was pretty much just me and him. So, guys, tell me: what's so great about "her" anyways?

Hey guys.

I'm not a troll.

I got dumped. lol

but I don't think I want to obsess over someone I obvious can't have, who is most likely not real.

Ginfan, you are an amazing dude. One of my fondest memories in any *chan, ever, was raiding that thread with dolljoints alongside you.

I love you guys. Souseiseki would be my doll of choice, but I can't obsess over her anymore.

TR;DR
I'm back btw. Still a /boku/fag, but not as intense as I was. I know I'm not really "inlove"

Last edited 10/11/25(Thu)08:05.

GOD DAMN THIS IS A FUCKING EPIC THREAD

>>2646
>>2645
>>2654
>>2658

FOR FUCKS SAKE WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO PROVE I'M NOT A GODDAMN TROLL

DO I HAVE TO CUM ON A PICTURE OF BOKU? FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

dayum

Not funny anymore.
Also, your last three post prove that you're fucking pathetic, posting firstly as usual, then being mad, and to the end with shitty doll porn.
Just save the rest of your shrinking pride and stop posting.

>>2679

>I got dumped. lol

>Ginfan, you are an amazing dude. One of my fondest memories in any *chan, ever, was raiding that thread with dolljoints alongside you.

Btw, he's banned for a month. No I didn't exactly report him.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

If GS&G ain't a troll, he sure flailed big time. Built himself a grand castle in an otherwise barren land and then razed it, he did.

>>2684
>>2684

>banned

Nope

>>2687
I meant Ginfan.

>>2688

Now that is a fucking crime.

I was dead serious this whole time.
Am I crazy? I'm a Paranoid Schizophrenic, u jelly?

also,

>mfw this thread up for two months

>>2683

btw, that would be four posts. durp

Seriously.
This must be the most entertaining thread ever.

Thread locked to preserve for future generations.

bump

Last edited by moderator 10/11/28(Sun)23:46.